Kyiv: Princess Veronika Murat de Chabo-Tramcourt and Prince Alain Murat are descendants of Georgian princes Dadiani and the French Murat dynasty – the famous marshal of Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte – the Neapolitan king Joachim Murat.
At the end of the XIX century, Joachim’s grandson Asil Murat married the Georgian princess Salome Dadiani, then left France and spent his entire life in Samegrelo, in one of the patrimonial estates of Georgian princes Dadiani, where he was buried.
The palace complex of Dadiani princes in the city of Zugdidi is the only surviving throne complex of Georgian appanage princes who ruled the Samegrelo region during centuries. Now the princess lives there.
In the house – museum of the princes Dadiani there are unique historical exhibits belonging to the French emperor Napoleon Bonaparte. Among them, a chair, a service and other things with monograms of Napoleon, as well as one of three posthumous masks made after the death of the emperor on St. Helena.
After the revolution of 1917, Asil Murat’s heirs left Georgia and settled in France. In 1997, French citizens Prince Alain Murat and Princess Veronica Murat de Shambo Trancour returned to Georgia. In 2004, they appealed to the Georgian authorities to provide them with a second – Georgian – citizenship.
Princess Murat first came to Kiev and told Front News International about her activities, relations with European monarchical families, charity, winemaking and difficulties that her family had to face in Georgia.
Front News: So your excellency because you’re princess we know that you have given the memoirs of Claude de Kemoularia to Sukhumi state university. Are you planning to continue that, supporting the students and give them an information like that?
Veronika Murat de Chabo-Tramcourt: So I taught history of France and history of the institution of France before the French revolution. After the French revolution I know nothing. but we spoke Claude de Kemoularia. He’s a very good friend. He was, because now he died last year. He has a very interesting view of the politic in the world because he was a member of the United Nation. So he represents France government during twenty years very long time. And he has a view of politic in all the world very interesting. When he was at the university of Sukhumi in Tbilisi it was very interesting because many students asked questions about future of Georgia, future of Russia. And his answers were very clever, very optimistic. And he like that he was and old man. He thought unite a way but once it happens with piece. He thought new political person would arrive in Georgia and in Russia and so many things can change. He was very optimist about this.
FNI: Like a peacemaker?
VM: Yes.
FNI: What’s your opinion on the conflict that’s we called occupied by Russia Abkhazia and South Osetia?
VM: I think you never accept such situation. I think one generation need to go and after new generation, your generation, I think they can do many things by piece but…think there are many clever people go away and think it’s finish forever. I think it’s never finish forever but your generation need to go there and never left such situation. And the best way is to go there and to live there because if everybody refuses to live there, Russian can be there
FNI: So you think if every Georgian or Abkhaz people will come back there to Abkhazia or to south Ossetia Russia will go away from that regions and will leave it?
VM: If the country is completely empty, Russian need to stay and stay and stay forever. But your generation need to go there and said “It’s our”. It’s the same situation for us. We were in front during 80 years’ communistic time. When the communist says “please go away”, we were in front. And 80 years after we came back in our land, in our house, and now we say “it’s our house”. And all the population in the village said “it’s your house”, but the government never speak about this.
FNI: During the war in 2008 you accepted the refugees from Abkhazia.
VM: I think the Georgian government want to be admitted in NATO. If they want to be NATO member, they can’t have refugees in their country. So since five years from the last war they organized house for refugees and the same in Zugdidi, you know they had a very nice big house and have flats there because it’s a very big problem for Georgian government. So they need to say “we have no refugees”. So it’s very good for refugees because now they had flat, they had house, they had better way of life than before. So it’s a good thing but it’s not enough. They need to go back to their house, to their home, to their country
FNI: And you helped that people?
VM: You know it’s a very big question because I think that population of refugees refuse to go there because it’s very dangerous.
FNI: They don’t want to go to Abkhazia, it’s a trap, I understand I’m from Donetsk, it’s the same and I also don’t want to go there I left the city almost three years ago and never been after. What about the refugees from Syria, Yemeni, Iraq, do you maybe have or ruling or making some organization for that people in France maybe? Maybe you support them as well?
VM: Yes. But you know the thing is, it would be true when… Per instance, when Georgian students go to France and they asked the status of political refugees, it’s not true. The thing is it true or isn’t true, it’s a very very difficult question because when they arrive to France it’s a dream. They think “we can have money, we do nothing and we have money for all life that. And we have a flat and we have everything” It’s not true. So when they arrived, it’s really a shock for these people because it’s not their dream, it’s not like that, life is not so easy. And so in France, it’s very difficult because so many people arrive and young people, young students has no job, has nothing and in a very bad situation. Our generation it’s not the same because we have our life is finish, we have our house, we have our job, we have our pension. So it’s easy for us, but for young generation it’s not the same. Very offense they have no house, no flat, no job, nothing, so they are very jealous for these people, because if they arrive, government give them money, but French people has nothing. So it’s very dangerous situation for the future. And so you see that it’s place in France, and they don’t speak about this, but somewhere in France it’s very high-level difficulties, very dangerous. Too much is too much, you can accept some people, but too much is too much.
FNI: You saying about accepting. You told before about your real state in Georgia which is left before the communism. I know that you asked orthodox Georgian church to give back some houses and they did refuse.
VM: They refuse … they were not cleared, you know document disappeared, and when we arrived, the church will change just one week before, and I will not have allowed to speak. Many things were very bad, not correct, and not normal. You know, a family of my husband has two palaces into GG(Georgia?) and three castles. So we asked one just to see how can we do and we lost this property. And we were first level, second level, third level and Strasburg, but in Strasburg all the document disappeared. How is it possible, I don’t know. But everything disappeared, so we spent so much money. We were completely exhausted and we say “Now we stop if the document disappears in Strasburg what we can do” and so we choose another way for the other property.
FNI: But you still planned to get it back or not?
VM: I don’t know, because we had 25 meetings with the government, prime minister, president, minister of justice, everybody. All the time it’s the same answer “Yes it’s yours. Yes, we can do something” and nothing happened. These seems 20 years now, it’s a long way. So now we live here, we have a photo of my father-in-law in this house when he was young, so it’s our house and no document does matter. That’s our house, that’s all. But I don’t know for the future (laughing)
FNI: Your family made a wine to Georgia. Are you doing something in Georgia or in France a winery?
VM: Yes, we want to restore a winery. And house for making a wine. We plant new small vineyard. We need to wait many years because for the moment it’s very small. But it’s a good result for this year. So we are very happy and we think we can do many things. We want toorganize geese. Just to give jump for the people in the village. We have many projects and every year we do something more. And this summer I want to organize special night? and to put photo with all the history of this house and all the famous friends who come there. For example, this family was very close friend for Nobel, Rothschild, the wife of Napoleon, she came there. So I organized a special text on phone and the tourist will arrive and they can hear the history of each photo. Museum outside and with nice decoration with photo and I think it can be very interesting for the history of this house.
FNI: And you can bring money from that village
VM: Yes, because my two sons are the architect and all they work came from the village. So they are very happy to work there and to have money.
FNI: You said about Alfred Nobel’s family, about Rothschild’s family, about Napoleon’s family. Do you still have a contacts with the politicians?
VM: I have many contacts, but for the moment I had no house to receive them. I can’t receive my family because I have no house, small house in Zugdidi, but it’s not enough. So now, I have a very nice house and last week I receive two very famous families of Belgium. They came and they were very happy, and now I can have my family, my friends just to had Georgia because you know they can have (id?) to investment in Georgia. I have wanted to do this since 20 years. Only now I can begin something very constructive.
FNI: Who else do you have contact?
VM: Luxembourg family, Monaco family, I know very well. I speak with the prince Albert of Monaco he said “Yes, I can come, if you want”. But my house isn’t finish completely, so that situation is not clear. It’s difficult but I think he can arrive. And in England too I know very well prince Charles, but it’s difficult with politicians, it’s not easy. But I hope we can do that.
FNI: Charles de Golle said about Kyiv that he has seen a lot of parks in this city but he never seen city in this park
VM: It’s exactly, it’s very good. And the same in Georgia, since 2 or 4 years they’ve got all the heads over the trees. Because it’s the country where it’s very hot during summer and we need shadow. And if cut all the trees, I can’t understand this. In Tbilisi in our street this winter they cut 4 trees, very big trees. Why? I don’t know why, and they don’t put new one. I can understand tree is old or dangerous, so you have to cut it and put a new one. But they never put a new one, I have never seen a new one. So big trees with very high head, it’s so nice, so good for else, for the population. And you know the churches are very clean, very new, very good painting in Kyiv.
FNI: What was your first impression on Ukraine?
VM: I have an impression of town where very bad situation and now it’s explosion. And now I have an impression the country and the town is new, and good, and very strong. I have an impression that this town going to be very strong and very high-level of life and very good. I have a grand grandmother, who came from Kyiv. She was a princess Anne de Kyiv. She was a daughter of Jaroslav and she became queen of France. And she had two sons: Philipp the first and Robert. And Robert is my grand grandfather.
